Curse

I Angra I · Nov 21, 2010, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Yeah I don't think anyone realized what the obs mode user cap was, considering nobody has ever sync watched that many people before. :P If it's under 100 people sync obsing though it doesn't really make a difference at what time you enter the obs as long as it's before 5:00 though, and as long as you're in the same district.

Sagittarii Zayin · Nov 21, 2010, 06:21 AM // 06:21

I just got home (missed all of it

sad panda), wondering if Apok has uploaded the maT's yet?

Thanks!

Apok · Nov 21, 2010, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Alright, the vids are up, just go to the channel below:

http://www.youtube.com/user/GWGApok

And enjoy!

Very fun mAT, guys!

Ariena Najea · Nov 21, 2010, 08:03 AM // 08:03

This month's commentary was definitely a success. While we reached 71 users on Mumble during last month's event, we peaked at 117 observers. Most of the attendees' responses have been positive, and every response I have read shows a desire for us to continue with the commentary.

We are still working through some difficulties, however, we are looking into a variety of solutions. Between Observer Mode limitations of 100 players per instance and confusion over what match is being viewed, we are considering implementing a live stream. We are also looking into changing up our commentator lineup as well as our style of commentary. If you have any comments or suggestions you'd like to share, please send me a PM here on Guru.

If you are interested in getting into GvG, look through Guru's Guild Recruitment Forum and come to #gwgpickup on IRC.

Artisan Archer · Nov 21, 2010, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Live Stream is definitely a good idea. If you take a look at how the Street Fighter community handles commentary on (real life) tournament matches it works pretty decent.
(example; Tournament match)
What they do is they have a video of the match streamed with live commentary and a chat channel right next to it so people can maybe ask questions or generally give their thoughts.
And recording the live stream is ofcourse very easy. You can just record the video input and upload that to youtube.

Also, any kind of anet presence in the commentary (maybe something official from skill balancers/test krewe?) would really help their image in the PvP community at least.

crimson.cosmos · Nov 21, 2010, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I'm not sure what a live stream offers on top of Mumble, but you should know that the latter's current Beta version has recording capabilities. Just check on their website under the "upcoming features".

For the cap in observer mode, I don't know if that could be easily changed or if it would negatively affect performance. Probably someone from ANet should comment on that - if it could be increased just on the mAT finals days it would be great.

I thought it was pretty clear which match was being commented - don't see any need to change anything there.

Finally, on your commentator lineup - you could have some new people every once in a while, but personally I've still got (doh!) loads to learn from the ones currenly "on board". They could probably use a break though - to play or just to listen themselves.

Good work all around!

cc

sven McNubcake · Nov 21, 2010, 04:21 PM // 16:21

not only a live stream would fix the observe mode issues, people could join in at any time they want and dont have to be there when the commentators are joining the matches.

Sagittarii Zayin · Nov 21, 2010, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Just started watching the posted link for the mAT's, thanks Apok! Also thank you to everyone who puts in the time and effort to make these commentries a reality each month. Appreciated!
I am loving the fact that Ego is there as a European representative, considering how many of the top guilds are european, its kinda a must (imo). Never say no to a european accent

Crimson lol, but I do agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimson.cosmos

Finally, on your commentator lineup - you could have some new people every once in a while, but personally I've still got (doh!) loads to learn from the ones currenly "on board". They could probably use a break though - to play or just to listen themselves.

My 2 cents as someone who these commentries are aimed at.

* Is it possible to get people who specialise in a certain build/role to comment on what is happening during a gvg.
- For example. It would be useful to hear a current players input on how hard a certain situation would be, what they would be or should be telling others in vent/ts, mistakes that have been made specifically to that role, how vocal they are on vent/ts, who they would be attacking or focusing their time against, do they camp other players, how they became better at the role they are now specialised in. This could be applied to so many of the current roles, ie flag runner/cripshot ranger/water ele/prot monk/heal monk/hammer warrior etc etc etc.

* When guilds are taking a lot of pressure and falling in a heap (which is where new people live - ie failing and dying) can there be some more explanation on why its happening, how the guild could have gotten out of it or if their builds/strategies were bound for fail from the get go. *It can't be all the monk's fault*. < was being facetious

* Use the current IGN that is on screen, not a person's real name. I don't care if his name is Jayden and that's what he is known as in the PvP scene. If he is playing as "xx trouser snake xx" then call him that. It is confusing enough trying to get your head around the mechanics without trying to work out who is who.

* Have people who actually still play, commentate. It's hard to take someone seriously who doesn't know what energy costs a skill has or where the npcs are.

Sankt Hallvard · Nov 22, 2010, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagittarii Zayin

* Use the current IGN that is on screen, not a person's real name. I don't care if his name is Jayden and that's what he is known as in the PvP scene. If he is playing as "xx trouser snake xx" then call him that. It is confusing enough trying to get your head around the mechanics without trying to work out who is who.

* Have people who actually still play, commentate. It's hard to take someone seriously who doesn't know what energy costs a skill has or where the npcs are.

I agree with using the current IGN. But on your other point I think you're referring to Asp's commentary? If anyone should be taken seriously it's him. While he might not be up to speed on recent skill updates the gvg mechanics haven't changed and he's regarded as one of the very best midliners in the game. I enjoy his commentary and tactical insight.

Kumu Honua · Nov 22, 2010, 01:34 AM // 01:34

I commented on the youtube account there. I'll repost here just in case. Just some of my observations.
------------------
First time checking out shoutcasts for the Mat. Definitely some practice needed.

To put some constructive criticism, I think you guys need to practice on who can talk when. Especially with the few times that the main speaker was 40 seconds behind the action. Really made it confusing when he's talking about deaths when there's nothing going on at the time.

So basically I suggest practicing not walking over each other, discussing how to handle when one caster is simply not synched up and unable to react to the action.

Was enjoyable anyway though.
------------

Just to restate. I was not saying that it was bad, I was just pointing out things that stuck out to me.

I will also mirror what Sagittarii said about using their current name in that game. I too was looking for "Who are they talking about".

An additional statement, it would be nice if the main commentator is the one controlling the camera/character selection so that people aren't discussing things like an assassin in the enemy base while the screen is at the flag stand.

Just some suggestions from someone who doesn't participate in the pvp, but enjoys watching them to learn and to just see higher level play. =)

diabiosx · Nov 22, 2010, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I think the commentary is great but the execution of the event is pretty bad mainly due to the fact that most people are not synced at same time(not your fault, its Anets). Having only a limited amount of players synced to the right time will not make this type of event "sucessful."(as in not having over 1k listeners.)Be Great if you guys can get hoook ups with Anet to make only 1version of obs available at a time for the first day. As in when 1 obs is full, a second obs will have the same time and so forth.

While Ustream works great with SSF4 because of the huge character models, I disagree with using Ustream for GW because the image quality is horrible which means u can not see what is going on.

1 critiscism for the commentaries:
Correct me if im wrong but the reason why you guys are doing commentaries is to attract more people into gvg right?
if thats the case, please dont use abreviations for skills, like last MAT, i keep hearing YAA, it can get confusing to the beginners.

HOPE GW2 will have a structure to promote commentaries of tournaments, give out raffle prices of in game items to attract viewers and stuff

Motoko · Nov 22, 2010, 08:01 AM // 08:01

While I agree it would help if Asp knew every single thing about modern GvG, it is an unrealistic request to a good player who doesn't necessarily play competitively anymore.

With that said, new players and players looking for information should take notes when Asp asks something to be informed about the game.

If he is asking a question, chances are knowing Asp it is a good question, and if you don't know the answer to it you should be asking it too.

*lemming* · Nov 22, 2010, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagittarii Zayin

* Is it possible to get people who specialise in a certain build/role to comment on what is happening during a gvg.
- For example. It would be useful to hear a current players input on how hard a certain situation would be, what they would be or should be telling others in vent/ts, mistakes that have been made specifically to that role, how vocal they are on vent/ts, who they would be attacking or focusing their time against, do they camp other players, how they became better at the role they are now specialised in. This could be applied to so many of the current roles, ie flag runner/cripshot ranger/water ele/prot monk/heal monk/hammer warrior etc etc etc.

This was partially addressed with the post-mat interview we had this month - several members of the winning guild came on Mumble afterwards to discuss their guild's playstyle. I agree that more integration of that into the commentary would be nice, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagittarii Zayin

* Use the current IGN that is on screen, not a person's real name. I don't care if his name is Jayden and that's what he is known as in the PvP scene. If he is playing as "xx trouser snake xx" then call him that. It is confusing enough trying to get your head around the mechanics without trying to work out who is who.

There's some abstract stuff I could offer about how it's important for observers to realize that the people behind the IGNs are personalities, but there's a couple of pretty obvious reasons for calling people by what they go by - it's easier to say "Jaden" instead of "Trouser Browser" (which I can't say with a straight face) over the course of 28 minutes, and it's just awkward to call someone you know by their full name.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagittarii Zayin

* Have people who actually still play, commentate. It's hard to take someone seriously who doesn't know what energy costs a skill has or where the npcs are.

Cut Asp a bit of slack. I didn't know Mantra of Persistence was 5e either. :<

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

Be Great if you guys can get hoook ups with Anet to make only 1version of obs available at a time for the first day. As in when 1 obs is full, a second obs will have the same time and so forth.

I can't see that happening - it's not a productive usage of time to do that (which would entail changing the way districts work）just for a player event.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

While Ustream works great with SSF4 because of the huge character models, I disagree with using Ustream for GW because the image quality is horrible which means u can not see what is going on.

Just from watching Starcraft streams recently, it seems feasible to make streams that feature enough image detail to make text readable in fullscreen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimson.cosmos

I'm not sure what a live stream offers on top of Mumble, but you should know that the latter's current Beta version has recording capabilities. Just check on their website under the "upcoming features".

There's other advantages to having a stream too - everyone's view is always going to be on the focus; people can tune in and not be left without a match to obs after matches start; viewers won't have to download a program just to tune in; the link can be easily distributed in public; there won't be any possibility of the broadcast being disrupted by viewers; chat would be far more convenient to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabiosx

Correct me if im wrong but the reason why you guys are doing commentaries is to attract more people into gvg right?
if thats the case, please dont use abreviations for skills, like last MAT, i keep hearing YAA, it can get confusing to the beginners.

We've been talking about having a guide to common terminology ready for the next cast, although people, especially those only passingly interested, are likely to not bother reading.

Having stream chat functioning would go a long way towards resolving this issue - questions could be asked there, and responsible people could be designated for answering questions.

Artisan Archer · Nov 22, 2010, 01:21 PM // 13:21

I agree with lemming. It's so much easier to just go to a website and watch for a few mins, then having to start up guild wars, have mumble installed, sync an entry into an obs match. I suspect many more people will just take a peak and maybe hang around for a bit then when they have to do all these things. (I personally waited for the uploads cause I didn't want to have to install mumble.)

Something else the commentators have been doing fairly little is explaining terminology and just the game generally. Specially on the bigger street fighter tournaments they usually have 2 or 3 commentators and even in high paced Street fighter matches they find the time to just chit chat about the game or just explain certain 'advanced' terms. I see no reason why in guild wars, which is alot slower paced than street fighter, this couldn't be done.
It shouldn't be hard to find time to explain what a split is, why certain skills are key components of a build and explain tactical decisions, like when it's important to stall a match or when you really have to make something happen and why.

I think our commentators are doing a fine job, but ofcourse there hasn't been alot of live commentating on guild wars matches yet so ofcourse there are some points of improvement imo. Just keep going. This kind of thing can potentially do alot more for GvG than a new tie breaker or better skill balance, so please keep doing it!

Apok · Nov 22, 2010, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Thanks for all the constructive criticism, guys! This is just what we need!

I'd like to address a concern about the current commentator status that many people seem to have, which is the lack of current players actually being the ones to commentate.

While it does seem counter-productive to have old players come on to discuss the events who haven't even touched the game in ages, it's actually very useful given the circumstances. We cannot simply ask a current top player to come in to commentate because they might be playing the tournament themselves, and it would seem rude to ask them to throw a match just to talk or to come in when they lose.

Having players who have left the competitive scene after accomplishing more than 90% of the current playerbase to come in to commentate on current matches is the best way to go in this situation. I mean, why do you think Kobe Bryant isn't in the commentator's seat for the NBA?

Also, we all agreed that a livestream would be for the best. This way, there would be no syncing needed for the viewers, a chat box to replace IRC, and a way to record without a third-party program. In every way possible, it is a step up from Mumble. To give our commentators (oh dear god, I might as well bind the word to a macro) better synchronization, we might ask Anet to give us some VIP room for observer mode, but if it would get in their way of their current projects, we'll just step aside and hope for the best.

On that note, I am currently working on the post-mAT interview (hour-long, thanks to Asp) so expect to hear it in the near future.

Kawil · Nov 22, 2010, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Well, I missed the live commentary (work sucks eh?) so I had to go to the replay which was pretty good (I only watched the final). Let's just say that it was disappointing that the commentators weren't synced as they all had very good points to put forth during the match. I know this wasn't their fault and they really tried to work around it which is much appreciated. All in all, I think that practice makes for better play by play and, as an outsider looking in, I'm very satisfied with what has been presented to us. The commentators are very knowledgeable with the GvG format and are coming into their own when breaking down this knowledge for laymen. As I said earlier, practice makes perfect if at least really well done.

Oh, one small thing: on the replay, the parties of the teams were on opposite sides of their morale boost countdowns. Not a complaint but it was confusing at times. Still, I'm really enjoying the way this is going and I also have to say that that final was really good. Props to the players of [sup] and [mojo] for a very entertaining match and thanks again to the commentators (forgive me for not naming you all as I'm not really sure of your names...other than Apok of course) and all the others who are setting this all up for us.

Still Number One · Nov 22, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawil

(forgive me for not naming you all as I'm not really sure of your names...other than Apok of course) and all the others who are setting this all up for us.

Asp, Angra, Ego, and Apok were the commentators in case you cared enough to know!

xhappy feetx · Nov 22, 2010, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Yea, thanks for all the feedback, we will for sure be incorporating new elements into next month's commentary, and thank you to my fellow organizer/commentators for picking up my slack when I was out for rivalry weekend xD

Kawil · Nov 22, 2010, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Asp, Angra, Ego, and Apok were the commentators in case you cared enough to know!

Thanks for that info. They weren't introduced in the video I watched so I wasn't sure.

Deviant · Nov 22, 2010, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Any sync'd video and commentating available for those of us who did not listen?